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So, pretty simple concept here. What do you guys think would have happened with the band, had Dave decided against leaving after the Chuck tour, and Deryck hadn't married Avril? With the metal influence in the band remaining (at least for one more record), and Avril's pink-pop-punk garbage (sorry to any fans) not being fed to Deryck, I'm interested to think of what kinda of music we'd have been hearing. The interesting thing about UH and SBM was that they were both fuelled partially by Avril - UH being the wild party and SBM being the fuck-off hangover. However, I can't help but think that, had Dave stayed around for at least one more record, he wouldn't have had as much of an influence on the band's sound as one might think.

Anyway, suggestions? Don't care if this has been discussed before; LET US RESURRECT IT.

Honestly i think there would be a UH coming from Deryck either if it was because of Avril or not. And SBM just happens to be the most honest album ever, also the product of his dark times.

Dave wouldn't change the direction at all, maybe we'd have a few more crazy solos around.

But that's just my opinion. Let's be nice and discuss :)

Dave not departing wouldn't really have made that much of a difference, the demos were already there before Dave left.
Avril probably partially influenced their direction, not necessarily with her music style, but Deryck being married to the woman he loved so much definitely got him in a happy state of mind, which influenced what he wrote at the time.
If Deryck was married to another girl at that time we would probably be listening to the same UH we're listening to now.

blackhawk1105 wrote:Dave not departing wouldn't really have made that much of a difference, the demos were already there before Dave left.
Avril probably partially influenced their direction, not necessarily with her music style, but Deryck being married to the woman he loved so much definitely got him in a happy state of mind, which influenced what he wrote at the time.
If Deryck was married to another girl at that time we would probably be listening to the same UH we're listening to now.

You just took my post and put better words in it, thanks i guess! Nah just kidding, i just totally agree.
Wonder what Ariana has in store for Deryck when it comes to influence on writing Maybe we get more Jessica Kill-ish songs that sounds like TFYTG and BYDWK

Like it has been said already, Underclass Hero would've been made anyway or at least the idea of it. The band, minus Dave, were already set on the "going back to a classic Sum 41 sound" before Dave even announced leaving. So, if he had stayed, they'd still be putting out a pop-punk record, but maybe with a bit more technical guitar playing similar to All Killer No Filler. After all, when Dave left Deryck said he was free to make the guitar parts as easy as he wanted.

If Deryck was single, the love songs wouldn't have been written. If he was only dating Avril and not engaged to her, then there's a possibility that they would've been written anyway. The way I saw it was that part of the ambition behind Underclass Hero was that Deryck was getting married to Avril. His life was good, therefore he wanted to keep the momentum going by trying to make his best record to date.

If Underclass Hero never existed, Screaming Bloody Murder would never have been made and that album is personally one of my most favorite albums in my entire life.

Jeremy Kill wrote: If Underclass Hero never existed, Screaming Bloody Murder would never have been made and that album is personally one of my most favorite albums in my entire life.

This. sbm IS my favorite album of my life!
And it's true, SBM was basically the reality of the aspirations made by UH. Like, What Am I to Say? is the aftermath of With Me. (Even though With Me is 1000x better than WAITS) The albums are linked...but I dont think that the creation of UH was intentional for the future SBM- it just happened because things changed.

SBM would not have had the same effect if he wasnt divorced. The emotion would be unrealistic. As apposed to the result : the most emotional album by the Sums yet...

Had Deryck and Avril divorced after 10+ years of marriage, I think he would've written a slightly different album.

In fact, I'm almost interested to hear what kind of album Sum 41 would've put out if Deryck and Avril were still married today. I believe the music would be similar (Jessica Kill and A Dark Road Out of Hell were already demoed by early 2009) and Tom still would've shown Deryck the Gob demo that eventually became Screaming Bloody Murder. Except for Jessica Kill, the main themes of the songs could've been completely different.

Jeremy Kill wrote:Had Deryck and Avril divorced after 10+ years of marriage, I think he would've written a slightly different album.

In fact, I'm almost interested to hear what kind of album Sum 41 would've put out if Deryck and Avril were still married today. I believe the music would be similar (Jessica Kill and A Dark Road Out of Hell were already demoed by early 2009) and Tom still would've shown Deryck the Gob demo that eventually became Screaming Bloody Murder. Except for Jessica Kill, the main themes of the songs could've been completely different.

Well a lot of the songs from SBM really have nothing to do with the divorce, but also weren't even inspired by them. Take TFYTG & BYDWK for example - I heard Derycks say in an update that neither were about the divorce, and they really do sound like the kind of music the band would make if the album hadn't been so dark. All the darkest songs, with the exception of BIME aren't about the divorce - even Crash was written years before. So the biggest difference I guess would be no BIME or WAITS.

Simple answer: if Underclass Hero hadn't happened, Sum 41 would have a much more solid discography. Underclass Hero is pretty shit apart from a few songs.

Hmm. This is something I've thought about on many occasions. I think Underclass Hero still would have been because on a personal level, that album is something different to any previous work--writing wise for Deryck. He wanted to write about things he never could think about, let alone open up about. (ie: Dear Father.) I think it would have happened regardless because he wanted to take the writing in a different direction (He said after Chuck if they were ever going to release another album, it'd have to be not just for the sake of releasing an album.) and at that point and time I think his feelings about everything that happened in the past that he wrote about still wouldn't of changed, whether Dave was in the band still or not.

Even with how personal the album is aside, each Sum album is different and progresses, so I think they would have still went in the direction they did. And of course, a few tracks (ie: Best of Me, With Me) wouldn't even exist so there's that, too.

To be honest, UH isn't one of my top Sum albums, but it's a deep album and I love it for that because as you listen to it you can really get the feel of the writing and the emotion that Deryck wanted the listeners to perceive. Some topics he wrote about wouldn't be easy for anyone and I think it helped him in a lot of ways, so I'm thankful he wanted and could share that with us all.

What if UH had been a Deryck solo album?

In someways I wish UH was never made, but on the other hand I don't think SBM would exist without it. So in the end I'm happy UH was made. It's Schumpeterian creative destruction.. lol.

I wouldn't have got to hear Speak of the Devil or watch the Walking Disaster video so I'd be a little bit gutted.

Unlike most Sum 41 fans, I enjoyed the album... I prefer the pop punk sound from them personally.

As for the Dave scenario... I think UH would have became another AKNF or HHOP if he stayed in the band (which I don't mind because again, I prefer the pop punk sound).

Heres a question, what if screaming bloody murder was made before underclass hero, do you think the sums would have kept their popularity from the chuck era instead of having a lot of it go down the drain after underclass?

Noreason757 wrote:Heres a question, what if screaming bloody murder was made before underclass hero, do you think the sums would have kept their popularity from the chuck era instead of having a lot of it go down the drain after underclass?

You can't really answer that question. SBM couldn't have been made before UH because a lot of it came from UH (I don't mean the music, I mean the ideas from UH were developed further under a new light). Also, it all depends on how much publicity the band got. SBM had the potential of gaining the band some more fame and mainstream 'worth' (I know, right?) but due to the label being... the label, it was a record only realised by the fans. So at the end of the day, it's not really a question of 'what if they were the other way round?' because things just don't work like that.

I'd miss a few songs, but could live without UH without a doubt... Speak Of The Devil, Walking Disaster and maybe Pull The Curtain are good songs, other ones I don't even remember...

And I remember discussing Dave's impact on the band while he was a member, and if my brain serves me right, I remember that we came to a conclusion that Dave didn't really write shit... According to the band and mostly Deryck, the singer was always to one to create, Dave was just a player... However, it is a fact that Dave was the reason why Chuck happened, cause Deryck wanted to please Dave.

I'll just quote Deryck

How has your writing style/process changed throughout the years?

IT'S CHANGED A LOT. I THINK THE LAST ALBUM EXPERIENCE REALLY HELPED ME GROW A LOT AS A WRITER AND POSSIBLY AS A PERSON. I DON'T THINK I COULD BE MAKING THE RECORD I'M MAKING NOW WITHOUT UNDERCLASS HERO EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T SOUND ANYTHING LIKE EACH OTHER.

- Deryck Whibley Q&A (8/26/09)

Heres a question, what if screaming bloody murder was made before underclass hero, do you think the sums would have kept their popularity from the chuck era instead of having a lot of it go down the drain after underclass?

Considering how their popularity was already declining, I'd say no. It's not just Sum 41 though, there are only a handful of rock bands nowadays that get played on MTV and sell lots of records

Better question is what if Avril never happened... Most of the lyrics on UH were already pretty grim, minus a couple love songs, i think it would have been a better album, but in terms of popularity it would have been even less successful than it was...

Think about how popular With Me as a single. I just wish they wouldnt have pushed Underclass Hero first, that video/song is the reason that album did poorly