Sum 41 / 13 Voices discussion

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Postby Jables on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:18 pm

Before this I could only make out the second and fourth line of that, but now I totally hear it.
Tasty bit of banter there from Bizzy D.
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby Ardi41 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:20 pm

Stef wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVpOl2mcWAk

Yeah?
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Postby Sju on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:59 pm

Whoa
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby Ashasx on Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:20 pm

There are references to lyrics and song titles across the band's entire discography in this album. I don't know if it's necessarily a shot at Steve, especially when they have a song called 32 Ways to Die.

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Re: 13 Voices

Postby Ardi41 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:45 pm

Ashasx wrote:There are references to lyrics and song titles across the band's entire discography in this album. I don't know if it's necessarily a shot at Steve, especially when they have a song called 32 Ways to Die.

Wich is a drum solo by steve,thus reinforcing my point.

But still like I said. I might be reading too much into it but it does make a lot of sense in context.
And if that wasn't deryck's intention I don't think he would put lyrics like that in there cause people (like myself) would think that he was firing shots at steve.
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Postby kev_apollo on Tue Oct 11, 2016 3:58 pm

I bought the record last Friday but only just finished listening to it today because of man flu and my hearing has been bunged.

I know it's only the first time hearing, but I'm pretty disappointed so far.

SBM was close to a masterpiece. But this...

Well, Murder of Crows was just something special. I thought, "here come's an ever better SMB". Then came Goddam I'm Dead Again, which was decent. I really liked the unpredictable pauses, although the guitar solo may have been a welcome return for Dave, but breaking it down, it was just another generic guitar solo straight out of the Hammett-archives, which is what Dave is tbh (here comes the hate!!!)

Then FMOD is another strong track.

But after that... it just felt like a boat load of recycled Sum 41 songs and Linkin Park ripoffs. I'm pretty sure I heard that LP song from Transformers about 3 times in the album!

Now before I start my next sentence, I wanna state that I do not believe I'm a better songwriter than Deryck... because I'm not. He's a massive inspiration to me. But I do not understand how as a songwriter, he can be satisfied with the same chord progressions time and time again and literally re-hashing the same melodies from previously released songs. Happiness Machine and Back Where I Belong were clearly re-hashed making sections incredibly predictable and uninspired. I'm 31 years old and I've been writing since I was 10. I'm doing alright musically (obviously not as successful), but there's no way I'd ever re-hash things. Ever!

And if the shot at Steve is true... then that's just sad! Whatever beef they may have, the fans don't wanna see. Anyone notice that Steve hasn't been on twitter/instagram since July and his youtube videos have been removed?

Oh, but Twisted By Design is a tune!
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Postby Sju on Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:25 pm

How do you interpret There Will Be Blood? I kinda don't get it.
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Re:

Postby TomiT14 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:16 pm

kev_apollo wrote:Anyone notice that Steve hasn't been on twitter/instagram since July and his youtube videos have been removed?


Wow, that's strange! Bummer! They were quite funny after all. :silly:
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Re:

Postby Gebirgskuchen on Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:40 pm

kev_apollo wrote:I bought the record last Friday but only just finished listening to it today because of man flu and my hearing has been bunged.

I know it's only the first time hearing, but I'm pretty disappointed so far.

SBM was close to a masterpiece. But this...

Well, Murder of Crows was just something special. I thought, "here come's an ever better SMB". Then came Goddam I'm Dead Again, which was decent. I really liked the unpredictable pauses, although the guitar solo may have been a welcome return for Dave, but breaking it down, it was just another generic guitar solo straight out of the Hammett-archives, which is what Dave is tbh (here comes the hate!!!)

Then FMOD is another strong track.

But after that... it just felt like a boat load of recycled Sum 41 songs and Linkin Park ripoffs. I'm pretty sure I heard that LP song from Transformers about 3 times in the album!

Now before I start my next sentence, I wanna state that I do not believe I'm a better songwriter than Deryck... because I'm not. He's a massive inspiration to me. But I do not understand how as a songwriter, he can be satisfied with the same chord progressions time and time again and literally re-hashing the same melodies from previously released songs. Happiness Machine and Back Where I Belong were clearly re-hashed making sections incredibly predictable and uninspired. I'm 31 years old and I've been writing since I was 10. I'm doing alright musically (obviously not as successful), but there's no way I'd ever re-hash things. Ever!

And if the shot at Steve is true... then that's just sad! Whatever beef they may have, the fans don't wanna see. Anyone notice that Steve hasn't been on twitter/instagram since July and his youtube videos have been removed?

Oh, but Twisted By Design is a tune!


100% agree. Unfortunetaly for me 13 Voices is the lame light version of SBM, and SBM even had some filler tracks. Furthermore the use of the same chord progressions over and over again is extremey noticeable. You could just let almost every song of 13 Voices flow right into the next und you wouldn't hear any difference, despite the sound.
The only songs I really like are FMOD and Twisted by Design.
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Postby linkwhibley on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:28 pm

I like more Zummo than Stevo on the drumm.
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Re: Re:

Postby pescidavid on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:49 pm

Gebirgskuchen wrote:the use of the same chord progressions over and over again is extremey noticeable. You could just let almost every song of 13 Voices flow right into the next und you wouldn't hear any difference, despite the sound.
The only songs I really like are FMOD and Twisted by Design.


Critiques that songs use same chord progressions, then states they like a song whose chorus uses the chord progression that has shown up multiple times on almost every sum 41 record since does this look infected
10/10 :silly:
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Postby Gebirgskuchen on Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:03 pm

You didn't really understand the criticism.
I criticized the overuse of the same chord progressions not the chord progression itself. And when you have an album, where almost every song contains them, well it's not that easy to pick the best song, which really sounds fresh.
And FMOD ist mostly put together by the riffs, not the chorus.

But you're right, saying that these chord progressions were used on the older albums before. On the other hand on these albums there weren't that much songs with these same harmonics. Perhaps 2-3 max on every album. (DTLI for example)
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Re:

Postby pescidavid on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:22 am

Gebirgskuchen wrote:
But you're right, saying that these chord progressions were used on the older albums before. On the other hand on these albums there weren't that much songs with these same harmonics. Perhaps 2-3 max on every album. (DTLI for example)


That is a good point, although I was really just teasing anyways. :2cool4u:
I think Brownsound helped these songs a lot. His guitar bits helped add some flair and something to break things up on many of the tracks. Not that I think any songs here are bad but i think for example the cool guitar bit in the middle of "breaking the chain" takes the song up at least a full letter grade for me. Thinking about the album without him could seem pretty uneventful at times
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby dff_punk on Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:22 am

About the chord progressions, this is a tough call.

If Deryck actually let go the typical chord progressions like Ami F C G or Emi G D A on the next album completely and replaced them with something innovative, would it still sound like Sum 41? Would people actually like it? Wouldn't people be actually sad, saying "this is not the Sum 41 I loved"? I don't have answers but we should think about it...
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby Gebirgskuchen on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:23 am

I would never plead for losing these chord progressions completely. But using them often simply weakens the effect. It's like singing with vibrato. If you use it on every note, there's no real effect, it just sounds common. BUT if you use it as dramatic device - like Deryck did on some Parts of SBM songs - the effect is much more present.

For me using the same chord progressions too often makes the songs much more replaceable.
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby pescidavid on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:38 am

dff_punk wrote:About the chord progressions, this is a tough call.

If Deryck actually let go the typical chord progressions like Ami F C G or Emi G D A on the next album completely and replaced them with something innovative, would it still sound like Sum 41? Would people actually like it? Wouldn't people be actually sad, saying "this is not the Sum 41 I loved"? I don't have answers but we should think about it...


I don't think what people love is the chord progression. Some of their best songs don't have the "sum 41" chord pattern: motivation, in too deep, hooch, we're all too blame, the bitter end, angels with dirty faces, and makes no difference just to name a few. It didn't bother me on this album as repeated chord progressions did on say underclass hero for some reason but I see where some are coming from, and using some other options likely wouldn't hurt them looking at their past fan favorites. They'd still be sum 41
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby dff_punk on Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:22 am

I agree with both of you. They can't lose the progressions completely, but to mix it up a little won't hurt a bit.

That is actually my only problem with this album - starting from War up until Twisted By Design, it's the same progression (Emi G D A or transpositions) that's used at least in the choruses. But to a person who is not a musician, that's hardly noticeable. I personally don't mind these progressions because I myself use them often in my songwriting, but this placement of tracks 7-10 makes it too obvious. They should have put at least the classic 4 chords (Emi C G D) into one of the choruses - that is at least "some" mixing it up :hehe:

...but I'd like to point out that 13 Voices still looks like the album of the year for me.
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby TomiT14 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:16 pm

Anyone else thinks that 13 Voices the song is straight out of MCR - The Black Parade? :silly:
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby Ardi41 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:38 pm

TomiT14 wrote:Anyone else thinks that 13 Voices the song is straight out of MCR - The Black Parade? :silly:

More like straight out of Dark road out of hell haha
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Re: 13 Voices

Postby pescidavid on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:49 pm

TomiT14 wrote:Anyone else thinks that 13 Voices the song is straight out of MCR - The Black Parade? :silly:

I've seen people compare tracks by sum 41 to mcr before and I just never hear it. Except I think there might have been one non album uh era b side that had the melody of the black parade which was why it was probably a b side. But other than that I never hear it
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