WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby HugoDisasters on Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:35 pm

Jeremy Kill wrote:Had Deryck and Avril divorced after 10+ years of marriage, I think he would've written a slightly different album.

In fact, I'm almost interested to hear what kind of album Sum 41 would've put out if Deryck and Avril were still married today. I believe the music would be similar (Jessica Kill and A Dark Road Out of Hell were already demoed by early 2009) and Tom still would've shown Deryck the Gob demo that eventually became Screaming Bloody Murder. Except for Jessica Kill, the main themes of the songs could've been completely different.

Yeah, and the songs in general were already demoed by early 2009.
And if I'm right the demos don't even have complete lyrics yet, from what I've seen on the studio updates much of the lyrics on the album came during pre-pro and after the songs were a bit more instrumentally polished. Which when at the time Deryck was making demos he was still married to Avril (maybe he made the demos during the time his marriage was falling apart?) whilst most of the lyrics were done after the divorce.

Even though he might have made the demos during their marrige, does not mean he was still happy when he did the demos. Maybe the demos were made when he was on the edge of his marriage, but not yet officially divorced.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby TomiT14 on Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:35 am

What the fuck is with this topic. It's popping up like every 6 months. I'm so sick of it already, so I didn't bother reading this at all.

Deryck said that SBM would've never happened without Underclass. He had to made UH to be able to start writing lyrics that meant something to him. He was surprised by everyone's reaction about going back to the pop punk scheme; They already made a harder metal record, why would people expect them to make the same record over again?

Deryck really was upset about fans' reaction towards UH. No one seemed to care about his effort in writing songs for himself for the first time, rather than writing them for the band to like playing them. Instead, every one was sad about Dave leaving the band, even though he wasn't that big part of the band. Deryck, Cone or Steve didn't really talk to Dave between tours. He didn't really have any input writing the songs excluding the solos.

Also, the problem with Dave was that he was so busy doing other stuff. Dave considered Sum 41 to be one of his hobbies. He didn't show up for practice if he had something better to do. When Deryck played him Confusion and other UH songs he had recorded, Dave wasn't willing to sacrifice time from his other hobbies to work with those kinds of songs. And since Deryck had decided that he's done writing songs with no meaning, there wouldn't be another option than to part ways.

Also, In Too Deep and Billy Spleen weren't played live during DTLI-Chuck eras because Dave didn't want to play them.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Gregorovich on Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:03 pm

TomiT14 wrote:What the fuck is with this topic. It's popping up like every 6 months. I'm so sick of it already, so I didn't bother reading this at all.

I don't recall this thread (aka. What would the band's 4th album be like if Dave stayed on for another one and Deryck hadn't met Avril) ever having come up since I've joined.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby HugoDisasters on Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:33 pm

Gregorovich wrote:
TomiT14 wrote:What the fuck is with this topic. It's popping up like every 6 months. I'm so sick of it already, so I didn't bother reading this at all.

I don't recall this thread (aka. What would the band's 4th album be like if Dave stayed on for another one and Deryck hadn't met Avril) ever having come up since I've joined.

Neither do i actually, but i can understand that this way of thinking can seem repetitive because much of these questions has pretty obvious answers if you know a thing or two about the band.

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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Emil on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:05 am

TomiT14 wrote:Also, the problem with Dave was that he was so busy doing other stuff. Dave considered Sum 41 to be one of his hobbies. He didn't show up for practice if he had something better to do. When Deryck played him Confusion and other UH songs he had recorded, Dave wasn't willing to sacrifice time from his other hobbies to work with those kinds of songs. And since Deryck had decided that he's done writing songs with no meaning, there wouldn't be another option than to part ways.

Also, In Too Deep and Billy Spleen weren't played live during DTLI-Chuck eras because Dave didn't want to play them.

Not that I doubt you in any way but were did you get that info on Dave from? I remember Dave saying back in 2007 that he was kind of hurt that Deryck said he didn't have any input in DTLI? and Chuck and that he did alot for those records. Also not playing Billy Spleen because Dave didn't want to i can get because he almost has to do co-lead vocals on that song and if you're not that comfortable as a singer it may be tough.
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WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Jeremy Kill on Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:46 pm

Deryck also said himself that he was sick of playing In Too Deep, so they stopped playing it.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Jeremy Kill on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:23 pm

Gregorovich wrote:
Jeremy Kill wrote:Had Deryck and Avril divorced after 10+ years of marriage, I think he would've written a slightly different album.

In fact, I'm almost interested to hear what kind of album Sum 41 would've put out if Deryck and Avril were still married today. I believe the music would be similar (Jessica Kill and A Dark Road Out of Hell were already demoed by early 2009) and Tom still would've shown Deryck the Gob demo that eventually became Screaming Bloody Murder. Except for Jessica Kill, the main themes of the songs could've been completely different.

Well a lot of the songs from SBM really have nothing to do with the divorce, but also weren't even inspired by them. Take TFYTG & BYDWK for example - I heard Derycks say in an update that neither were about the divorce, and they really do sound like the kind of music the band would make if the album hadn't been so dark. All the darkest songs, with the exception of BIME aren't about the divorce - even Crash was written years before. So the biggest difference I guess would be no BIME or WAITS.

I'm pretty sure the majority of the songs are about the divorce. You have to really listen about what the songs are saying. Sure, none may be as explicit as What Am I to Say or Blood In My Eyes, but pretty much all the songs have some motivation from Deryck's breakup. Watch Don't Try This At Home again and it will be obvious that Screaming Bloody Murder was a remedy to help him through that. The two tock & roll songs could be an exception since the lyrics are very bland and vague, but they are still about relationships nonetheless. The party after climbing out of rock bottom? That's how I see those songs. A Dark Road Out of Hell is pretty much confirmed it was about the divorce by Deryck thanks to Tomi. The rest of the songs allude to the divorce vaguely, but you can be sure that that is what Deryck is talking about.

Reason to Believe - "Cause after all, you can't get everything you want now."
Screaming Bloody Murder - "God will set you up to bleed and no one can deceive what is meant to be"
Skumfuk - "Take the pictures off the wall, erase the thoughts forget them all"
Back Where I Belong - "I'm on my own, but I am back where I belong"
Exit Song - "It's time to let you go and bow out of this game"

Of course, these songs could be applied to anything shitty that happens in life. I'm not saying these songs are 100% written about the divorce, but they are definitely inspired by it. I believe there to be at least one line from every song on that album that spawned from the breakup. For instance, picture Deryck singing the last line in Crash ("I was supposed to grow old with you, but that ain't gonna happen"). Do you think he thought about that guy in the accident or about Avril when he recorded that line? I think songwriters will always tie in something personal, something that means to them in their songs, even if it isn't anything to do with their lives. How are you supposed to make something come off as believable if you don't feel like it happened to yourself as well?
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby ÜBERCUNT on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:30 pm

I find that as the album progresses, he becomes accepting of letting go. Meanwhile at the start, he's in disbelief.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Gregorovich on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:05 pm

Jeremy Kill wrote:
Gregorovich wrote:
Jeremy Kill wrote:Had Deryck and Avril divorced after 10+ years of marriage, I think he would've written a slightly different album.

In fact, I'm almost interested to hear what kind of album Sum 41 would've put out if Deryck and Avril were still married today. I believe the music would be similar (Jessica Kill and A Dark Road Out of Hell were already demoed by early 2009) and Tom still would've shown Deryck the Gob demo that eventually became Screaming Bloody Murder. Except for Jessica Kill, the main themes of the songs could've been completely different.

Well a lot of the songs from SBM really have nothing to do with the divorce, but also weren't even inspired by them. Take TFYTG & BYDWK for example - I heard Derycks say in an update that neither were about the divorce, and they really do sound like the kind of music the band would make if the album hadn't been so dark. All the darkest songs, with the exception of BIME aren't about the divorce - even Crash was written years before. So the biggest difference I guess would be no BIME or WAITS.

I'm pretty sure the majority of the songs are about the divorce. You have to really listen about what the songs are saying. Sure, none may be as explicit as What Am I to Say or Blood In My Eyes, but pretty much all the songs have some motivation from Deryck's breakup. Watch Don't Try This At Home again and it will be obvious that Screaming Bloody Murder was a remedy to help him through that. The two tock & roll songs could be an exception since the lyrics are very bland and vague, but they are still about relationships nonetheless. The party after climbing out of rock bottom? That's how I see those songs. A Dark Road Out of Hell is pretty much confirmed it was about the divorce by Deryck thanks to Tomi. The rest of the songs allude to the divorce vaguely, but you can be sure that that is what Deryck is talking about.

Reason to Believe - "Cause after all, you can't get everything you want now."
Screaming Bloody Murder - "God will set you up to bleed and no one can deceive what is meant to be"
Skumfuk - "Take the pictures off the wall, erase the thoughts forget them all"
Back Where I Belong - "I'm on my own, but I am back where I belong"
Exit Song - "It's time to let you go and bow out of this game"

Of course, these songs could be applied to anything shitty that happens in life. I'm not saying these songs are 100% written about the divorce, but they are definitely inspired by it. I believe there to be at least one line from every song on that album that spawned from the breakup. For instance, picture Deryck singing the last line in Crash ("I was supposed to grow old with you, but that ain't gonna happen"). Do you think he thought about that guy in the accident or about Avril when he recorded that line? I think songwriters will always tie in something personal, something that means to them in their songs, even if it isn't anything to do with their lives. How are you supposed to make something come off as believable if you don't feel like it happened to yourself as well?

I recall an interview with Deryck late in the production stage of the album back when we were tossing working titles around in which he believed a lot of people will wrongly link various song lyrics to the divorce, which was an easy mistake to make given the nature of some of the lyrics. As to Crash, I also recall an interview with Deryck where he said the reason he finally put Crash on this album was because, up until now, the band have never released anything remotely as dark as SBM, and the dark, almost twisted vibe on Crash suited it perfectly. Yeah, maybe Deryck thought of Avril as he recorded the song, but that's not the reason it went on the album.
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WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Jeremy Kill on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:19 pm

Gregorovich wrote:
Jeremy Kill wrote:
Gregorovich wrote:
Jeremy Kill wrote:Had Deryck and Avril divorced after 10+ years of marriage, I think he would've written a slightly different album.

In fact, I'm almost interested to hear what kind of album Sum 41 would've put out if Deryck and Avril were still married today. I believe the music would be similar (Jessica Kill and A Dark Road Out of Hell were already demoed by early 2009) and Tom still would've shown Deryck the Gob demo that eventually became Screaming Bloody Murder. Except for Jessica Kill, the main themes of the songs could've been completely different.

Well a lot of the songs from SBM really have nothing to do with the divorce, but also weren't even inspired by them. Take TFYTG & BYDWK for example - I heard Derycks say in an update that neither were about the divorce, and they really do sound like the kind of music the band would make if the album hadn't been so dark. All the darkest songs, with the exception of BIME aren't about the divorce - even Crash was written years before. So the biggest difference I guess would be no BIME or WAITS.

I'm pretty sure the majority of the songs are about the divorce. You have to really listen about what the songs are saying. Sure, none may be as explicit as What Am I to Say or Blood In My Eyes, but pretty much all the songs have some motivation from Deryck's breakup. Watch Don't Try This At Home again and it will be obvious that Screaming Bloody Murder was a remedy to help him through that. The two tock & roll songs could be an exception since the lyrics are very bland and vague, but they are still about relationships nonetheless. The party after climbing out of rock bottom? That's how I see those songs. A Dark Road Out of Hell is pretty much confirmed it was about the divorce by Deryck thanks to Tomi. The rest of the songs allude to the divorce vaguely, but you can be sure that that is what Deryck is talking about.

Reason to Believe - "Cause after all, you can't get everything you want now."
Screaming Bloody Murder - "God will set you up to bleed and no one can deceive what is meant to be"
Skumfuk - "Take the pictures off the wall, erase the thoughts forget them all"
Back Where I Belong - "I'm on my own, but I am back where I belong"
Exit Song - "It's time to let you go and bow out of this game"

Of course, these songs could be applied to anything shitty that happens in life. I'm not saying these songs are 100% written about the divorce, but they are definitely inspired by it. I believe there to be at least one line from every song on that album that spawned from the breakup. For instance, picture Deryck singing the last line in Crash ("I was supposed to grow old with you, but that ain't gonna happen"). Do you think he thought about that guy in the accident or about Avril when he recorded that line? I think songwriters will always tie in something personal, something that means to them in their songs, even if it isn't anything to do with their lives. How are you supposed to make something come off as believable if you don't feel like it happened to yourself as well?

I recall an interview with Deryck late in the production stage of the album back when we were tossing working titles around in which he believed a lot of people will wrongly link various song lyrics to the divorce, which was an easy mistake to make given the nature of some of the lyrics. As to Crash, I also recall an interview with Deryck where he said the reason he finally put Crash on this album was because, up until now, the band have never released anything remotely as dark as SBM, and the dark, almost twisted vibe on Crash suited it perfectly. Yeah, maybe Deryck thought of Avril as he recorded the song, but that's not the reason it went on the album.

Okay, well I want to know what YOU think these songs are about. Everyone has their own opinion/interpretation of these songs (you know mine), I'd be interested to know what you think. I've watched some of those interviews so I already know what Deryck has said, but it doesn't make it the end all, be all; I believe deep down that the divorce sparked the anger and darkness for that album. Deryck still said that anything that happens in your life affects what you do creatively. It's almost like he just threw it out there without having to say it out loud. These songs are also not as clear cut as Underclass Hero, so they could be about anything, yes. They would just be about shitty things that happen in life.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Gregorovich on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:07 am

Jeremy Kill wrote:
Gregorovich wrote:
Jeremy Kill wrote:
Gregorovich wrote:
Jeremy Kill wrote:Had Deryck and Avril divorced after 10+ years of marriage, I think he would've written a slightly different album.

In fact, I'm almost interested to hear what kind of album Sum 41 would've put out if Deryck and Avril were still married today. I believe the music would be similar (Jessica Kill and A Dark Road Out of Hell were already demoed by early 2009) and Tom still would've shown Deryck the Gob demo that eventually became Screaming Bloody Murder. Except for Jessica Kill, the main themes of the songs could've been completely different.

Well a lot of the songs from SBM really have nothing to do with the divorce, but also weren't even inspired by them. Take TFYTG & BYDWK for example - I heard Derycks say in an update that neither were about the divorce, and they really do sound like the kind of music the band would make if the album hadn't been so dark. All the darkest songs, with the exception of BIME aren't about the divorce - even Crash was written years before. So the biggest difference I guess would be no BIME or WAITS.

I'm pretty sure the majority of the songs are about the divorce. You have to really listen about what the songs are saying. Sure, none may be as explicit as What Am I to Say or Blood In My Eyes, but pretty much all the songs have some motivation from Deryck's breakup. Watch Don't Try This At Home again and it will be obvious that Screaming Bloody Murder was a remedy to help him through that. The two tock & roll songs could be an exception since the lyrics are very bland and vague, but they are still about relationships nonetheless. The party after climbing out of rock bottom? That's how I see those songs. A Dark Road Out of Hell is pretty much confirmed it was about the divorce by Deryck thanks to Tomi. The rest of the songs allude to the divorce vaguely, but you can be sure that that is what Deryck is talking about.

Reason to Believe - "Cause after all, you can't get everything you want now."
Screaming Bloody Murder - "God will set you up to bleed and no one can deceive what is meant to be"
Skumfuk - "Take the pictures off the wall, erase the thoughts forget them all"
Back Where I Belong - "I'm on my own, but I am back where I belong"
Exit Song - "It's time to let you go and bow out of this game"

Of course, these songs could be applied to anything shitty that happens in life. I'm not saying these songs are 100% written about the divorce, but they are definitely inspired by it. I believe there to be at least one line from every song on that album that spawned from the breakup. For instance, picture Deryck singing the last line in Crash ("I was supposed to grow old with you, but that ain't gonna happen"). Do you think he thought about that guy in the accident or about Avril when he recorded that line? I think songwriters will always tie in something personal, something that means to them in their songs, even if it isn't anything to do with their lives. How are you supposed to make something come off as believable if you don't feel like it happened to yourself as well?

I recall an interview with Deryck late in the production stage of the album back when we were tossing working titles around in which he believed a lot of people will wrongly link various song lyrics to the divorce, which was an easy mistake to make given the nature of some of the lyrics. As to Crash, I also recall an interview with Deryck where he said the reason he finally put Crash on this album was because, up until now, the band have never released anything remotely as dark as SBM, and the dark, almost twisted vibe on Crash suited it perfectly. Yeah, maybe Deryck thought of Avril as he recorded the song, but that's not the reason it went on the album.

Okay, well I want to know what YOU think these songs are about. Everyone has their own opinion/interpretation of these songs (you know mine), I'd be interested to know what you think. I've watched some of those interviews so I already know what Deryck has said, but it doesn't make it the end all, be all; I believe deep down that the divorce sparked the anger and darkness for that album. Deryck still said that anything that happens in your life affects what you do creatively. It's almost like he just threw it out there without having to say it out loud. These songs are also not as clear cut as Underclass Hero, so they could be about anything, yes. They would just be about shitty things that happen in life.

I personally feel that the darkness and intensity of SBM was an inevitable feature of the successor to UH, divorce or not. You can really hear that kind of energy poking through in songs like Count Your Last Blessings and Pull the Curtain - and I was also hoping deep down that the band were also going to return to the kind of raw energy which flowed so freely through Chuck (and which was somewhat supressed in UH). Needless to say I feel with or without the divorce we would be getting a high-intensity, energy-filled album which was both dark, heavy and raw, as well as melodic, controlled and refined. Well I was wrong about it being controlled but I feel the impact of the divorce in the end was to carry this record as far away from UH as possible - ie. it got a LOT darker. I think the songs which were already written at that point, while not necessarily having anything to do with the divorce, were transformed by Deryck's state of mind.Obviously there are a couple of songs which relate directly to the divorce, written after it happened with that exact purpose; but you can tell that Deryck was on the road to making a dark, heavy album with a twisted sense of humour from tracks like Jessica Kill which were written early on in the process and feature the album's intensity perfectly, even though it was unrelated to the songs which followed it, which happened to have the same kind of vibe.

Going back to the humour idea on a side-note: I actually get quite annoyed at people who claim that the band's music has lost all humour by SBM - I actually think it has the most humour sine DTLI? - just in a really dark, twisted way, like Avenged Sevenfold or MCR (sorry to bring them up again ^^). You can really hear it on tracks like Skumfuk, Time For You To Go, Jessica Kill and Baby You Don't Wanna Know, which plays the whole way through with a sense of bitterness and irony, which I love (don't know if this is intended or not). It's most prominent in Skumfuk, especially when Deryck sings it live with that sneer on his face that says, "Yeah, that's right. Fuck you."

Probably not the answer you were looking for, but I just opinion-sneezed all over my keyboard.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Jeremy Kill on Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:01 am

I think I understand what you were saying. In fact, what you're saying here is basically what I was trying to get at in the first quote of our quote train, haha. Like, the music would be the same/similar as the songs were already being written, but lyrically they would be slightly different, as in certain lines/phrases wouldn't have been penned, but the overall feel of the album would be the same. I remember Deryck saying the music was sounding bigger and more "epic" than their previous works and this was back in 2009.
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby Kriky on Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:54 pm

Screaming Bloody Murder is one of my favourite albums of all time. I mean, it's been a while since it came out, but i still listen to it almost every day... It's an awesome record and if Dave's departure was neccesary for this, then it's OK for me.
(Actually, I've been a fan since Underclass Hero, so I haven't seen them together with Dave).
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby TomiT14 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:35 pm

Jeremy Kill wrote:The two tock & roll songs could be an exception since the lyrics are very bland and vague, but they are still about relationships nonetheless.


Oh yeah, forgot to tell. Time For You To Go is about Deryck getting tired of his hookup(s) during the recording sessions. Time to replace the girl with a new one. :silly:
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Re: WHAT IF... UH hadn't happened?

Postby bizzyd676 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:37 pm

Even though the sound was less metal, the content of that album in my eyes was still fairly dark. The lyrics on Pull The Curtain, Count Your Last Blessings and The Jester are all equally as heavy/mature content wise too all their albums after AKNF.

The only songs on that album that sounds like Avril could have sung them lol were;
1. "Underclass Hero" (Deryck Whibley/Steve Jocz) 3:14
2. "Walking Disaster" 4:46
3. "Speak of the Devil" 3:58
4. "Dear Father" 3:52
5. "Count Your Last Blessings" 3:03
6. "Ma Poubelle" (Deryck Whibley/Steve Jocz) 0:55
7. "March of the Dogs" 3:09
8. "The Jester" 2:48
9. "With Me" 4:51
10. "Pull the Curtain" 4:18
11. "King of Contradiction" 1:40
12. "Best of Me" 4:25
13. "Confusion and Frustration in Modern Times" 3:46
14. "So Long Goodbye" 3:01
15. "Look at Me" (not available on all editions; hidden track; starts at 2:00)

Besides those, their content was pretty much typical nihilistic Sum 41. Deryck's never been one to digress from writing overly complicated/dense lyrics, which in my eyes is the essense of pop punk, which they have never trully been.

Had Dave stayed, my feelings are they would have made the same album, just had some more metalic solos.

Perhaps as well they may have picked their singles more wisely, because i am pretty confident that is why that last album hurt their fanbase so much. The record label was reaching to hard to make them something they were not.
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