Controversial Opinions

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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Ardi41 »

X^2 wrote:
When I'm in class I sometimes catch myself thinking about burning down all the crosses hanging over the doors in each classroom
They have stuff like that in German schools?
you see , that's exactly my point ... normally we have seperation of church and state so there shouldn't be any religion whatsoever at school. But Bavaria (where I'm coming from) just seems to ignore that and refuses to take these crosses down. It pisses me off big time.
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ಠ_ಠ this is one fucked up theory.

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Post by Scoutaloo »

-I have given up hope on humanity as a whole. There is too much ignorance and hate in the world to ever reach anything close to a utopian paradise. All attempts to reach such a goal is just delaying the inevitable downfall. All governments will eventually devolve into fascist dictatorships(or something of the sort) that will only take every opportunity to restrict our rights to express ourselves.

-Speaking of government, I personally think all government is evil. I hate it when people tell me how great any government is, especially the US government, because no government is great. They all suck, basically. My opinion apparently aligns itself with some of my favorite free thinkers, such as Thomas Paine, the writer of the book Common Sense (which was a very important piece of literature in the time of the independence of the United States). Government sucks, politicians suck, all that and a bag of chips.

-Public apologies are pointless and stupid. All it does it give the American public the satisfaction that the person has changed for the better, when in fact the person has not changed at all, and just wants to still be loved by the public. Someone who is sincerely sorry for their actions shouldn't have to apologize, but instead show their change through their actions. Words are cheap, actions aren't.

-People who do/buy/like things simply because it's popular are misguided fools. Sadly, this seems to compose the majority of the people around me, but seeing as Sum 41 hasn't been popular for quite some time, I doubt anyone here is like that.

-People in general suck. There are exceptions, however.
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Post by Gregorovich »

Scoutaloo wrote:-I have given up hope on humanity as a whole. There is too much ignorance and hate in the world to ever reach anything close to a utopian paradise. All attempts to reach such a goal is just delaying the inevitable downfall. All governments will eventually devolve into fascist dictatorships(or something of the sort) that will only take every opportunity to restrict our rights to express ourselves.

-Speaking of government, I personally think all government is evil. I hate it when people tell me how great any government is, especially the US government, because no government is great. They all suck, basically. My opinion apparently aligns itself with some of my favorite free thinkers, such as Thomas Paine, the writer of the book Common Sense (which was a very important piece of literature in the time of the independence of the United States). Government sucks, politicians suck, all that and a bag of chips.

-Public apologies are pointless and stupid. All it does it give the American public the satisfaction that the person has changed for the better, when in fact the person has not changed at all, and just wants to still be loved by the public. Someone who is sincerely sorry for their actions shouldn't have to apologize, but instead show their change through their actions. Words are cheap, actions aren't.

-People who do/buy/like things simply because it's popular are misguided fools. Sadly, this seems to compose the majority of the people around me, but seeing as Sum 41 hasn't been popular for quite some time, I doubt anyone here is like that.

-People in general suck. There are exceptions, however.
You hate too much. If there is one thing which literature, philosophy and the course of history have solidified in the past couple of thousand years, it is that the 'utopian paradise' of which you speak is simply impossible. Society is a human concept, and therefore there is no idealistic, perfect example of society. And the USA's 'idiocracy' has clearly given you a terrible idea of what politics should be. Across the pond, things are significantly more stable (and correlatingly less capitalist).
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by ÜBERCUNT »

There is no evidence of any form of afterlife.

The way I see it is-
You will live. Then you will die. Then you will rot. Suck it up.
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Re: Re:

Post by Scoutaloo »

cladam41 wrote:There is no evidence of any form of afterlife.

The way I see it is-
You will live. Then you will die. Then you will rot. Suck it up.
From what I can tell, the concept of an afterlife is really based mostly on faith, which is basically the opposite of evidence. So that point seems a bit moot to me, even if it is pretty true.

There is no evidence against the afterlife's existence, however. At least, not any I know of.
Gregorovich wrote:You hate too much.
Indeed. It is a quality I'm trying to fix, but I'm not being very successful, obiously.
If there is one thing which literature, philosophy and the course of history have solidified in the past couple of thousand years, it is that the 'utopian paradise' of which you speak is simply impossible. Society is a human concept, and therefore there is no idealistic, perfect example of society.
Exactly.
And the USA's 'idiocracy' has clearly given you a terrible idea of what politics should be. Across the pond, things are significantly more stable (and correlatingly less capitalist).
I think democracy is a good idea, but a lot like communism, humans are just too greedy to make it work well. It probably works fine in very small groups, but as a whole nation, it seems to fail abysmally time and time again.

I have been beginning to research other government systems a little more in depth over the past year, so hopefull I'll find one that suits me, and I can cut the depressing realization that government is worse than it really is.
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by X^2 »

All governments will eventually devolve into fascist dictatorships(or something of the sort) that will only take every opportunity to restrict our rights to express ourselves.
Haha. That's actually a quite common perception when it comes to political thinkers. Likes such as Machiavelli and Aristotle both support this view, at least in a way. With Machiavelli the basis for this is basically in his distrust for mankind. Aristotle on the other hand sees three possible good forms of constitution (Royalty, aristocracy, politeia), but in the end these will turn into perversions of themselves. (tyranny, oligarchy, democracy) And yes. Democracy is one of the perverted forms of government for Aristotle.
-Speaking of government, I personally think all government is evil. I hate it when people tell me how great any government is, especially the US government, because no government is great. They all suck.
The praising of ones own government.. Goddamn I hate that too. That's why I'm not going to praise the Nordic welfare system here. (Even If I had solid arguments for it)
Regarding the United States, I think it's cause of US education and media that many get so twisted view of their own country there.
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Post by Ardi41 »

Scoutaloo wrote:
There is no evidence against the afterlife's existence, however. At least, not any I know of.
I absoulutely hate it when people use this argument. It's bollocks. You don't need to prove the non-existence of something.
The burden of prove lies on the people making that stuff up.

If I said I can fly, you would say : prove it. I couldn't go : No, you prove that I can't fly.
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Post by Gregorovich »

Scoutaloo wrote: I think democracy is a good idea, but a lot like communism, humans are just too greedy to make it work well. It probably works fine in very small groups, but as a whole nation, it seems to fail abysmally time and time again.

I have been beginning to research other government systems a little more in depth over the past year, so hopefull I'll find one that suits me, and I can cut the depressing realization that government is worse than it really is.
The biggest problem with democracy is that it puts too much trust in the ability of the country's citizens to not be utter morons. As Churchill said, 'The best argument against democracy is a five-minute discussion with the average voter.' The most recent USA Presidential elections are living proof of that. Giving the people too much power is a very dangerous thing; especially when you're dealing with a country like America.

And you can't just 'find a system that suits you'. So you discover a system that you think might work. What are you going to do then? Nothing; just sit there and complain like everybody else.
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Scoutaloo »

X^2 wrote:The praising of ones own government.. Goddamn I hate that too. That's why I'm not going to praise the Nordic welfare system here. (Even If I had solid arguments for it)
Regarding the United States, I think it's cause of US education and media that many get so twisted view of their own country there.
I have to agree. I used to think the US was the best country ever, until I started reading books about it that weren't in the public education circulation. I found that I was never taught about the Bombing of Dresden, or the Firebombing of Tokyo, or Opeation Keelhaul. I didn't learn that America's involvement in WWII altogether was mainly pointless. But everyone around me thinks it's this fantastic country, and we're always the good guys, and all that bull. Really pisses me off. And I'm certain this is the case for every country, which depresses me a bit.
Gregorovich wrote:The biggest problem with democracy is that it puts too much trust in the ability of the country's citizens to not be utter morons. As Churchill said, 'The best argument against democracy is a five-minute discussion with the average voter.' The most recent USA Presidential elections are living proof of that. Giving the people too much power is a very dangerous thing; especially when you're dealing with a country like America.
Well said. this is the problem I have with a democracy. Most people who vote for elected positions have no clue what the candidate they're voting for really stands for. I mean, come on. Most of the US voted for Obama the first term to prove they weren't racist. That's not smart voting.
And you can't just 'find a system that suits you'. So you discover a system that you think might work. What are you going to do then? Nothing; just sit there and complain like everybody else.
Yeah. Sounds like something I would do. I should probably try to fix that.
Ardi41 wrote: I absoulutely hate it when people use this argument. It's bollocks. You don't need to prove the non-existence of something.
The burden of prove lies on the people making that stuff up.
Pssssh. I'm smart enough to know that's not a valid argument. Just pointing it out, in case someone here really believes that. Just trying to get on the same page here, know what I'm sayin?
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Ardi41 »

Scoutaloo wrote:
Ardi41 wrote: I absoulutely hate it when people use this argument. It's bollocks. You don't need to prove the non-existence of something.
The burden of prove lies on the people making that stuff up.
Pssssh. I'm smart enough to know that's not a valid argument. Just pointing it out, in case someone here really believes that. Just trying to get on the same page here, know what I'm sayin?
I wasn't necessarily talking about you, just about people who bring up these arguments in general :winkwink:
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by Scoutaloo »

Ardi41 wrote: I wasn't necessarily talking about you, just about people who bring up these arguments in general :winkwink:
Ah, that makes more sense. Just didn't want to get off on the wrong foot already ^^
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by FuckT41182 »

Democracy gives way to nepotism, which allows stupid people like Paris Hilton to be much richer than many people who actually have at least some brain in their heads. And money rule the world, and as you see in our world, you don't have to be smart to be rich, you just have to be fortunate. Hence, the stupidest of all people will soon hold all the power in the world.

The only valid argument that religious people make is that the universe seems to work systematically, there are thousands of little things that have to work exactly as they are working now in order for us to exist, like the distance between the sun and the earth and many other things. I personally choose to be agnostic, if only for the fact that agnosticism usually does not lead to any conflicts, because being neutral doesn't piss off any side - neither the atheists nor the religious. And also, I am not entirely convinced that some sort of divine intelligence could not exist. Of course, I am not talking about a God or any other entity controlling the actions of every human being. The concept of God is alien to me, like when people believe that God listens to their prayers, why would he stop doing his usual job of systematically murdering African babies to come and help some football player to score a goal?
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by X^2 »

Democracy gives way to nepotism, which allows stupid people like Paris Hilton to be much richer than many people who actually have at least some brain in their heads.
I need to apologize before I write anything, but I don't get that at all. How do you relate nepotism to democracy and then further derive an conclusion that Paris Hilton is rich due this.. If anything Democracy should be a counter-measure against nepotism as it divides the political power to a multitude of persons and therefore decentralizes the power.

The only valid argument that religious people make is that the universe seems to work systematically, there are thousands of little things that have to work exactly as they are working now in order for us to exist, like the distance between the sun and the earth and many other things.
This argument I've never actually understood. I'm going to have trouble explaining this but I try...
If we consider the size of the universe (which very well may be limitless) and also the nature of time (once again, time could be infinite), eventually even the most unlikeliest event will occur in some place at some time. So for us to exist here, is not that big of a surprise at least to me.
Even a ball will warp through a wall if you throw it against the wall for a long enough time, though I wouldn't suggest trying. You'll just get a sore hand. :happy:
And of course, we don't know if life in conditions other than what we have here would be possible.
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by FuckT41182 »

X^2 wrote:I need to apologize before I write anything, but I don't get that at all. How do you relate nepotism to democracy and then further derive an conclusion that Paris Hilton is rich due this.. If anything Democracy should be a counter-measure against nepotism as it divides the political power to a multitude of persons and therefore decentralizes the power.
You don't need to apologize for anything. You want to tell me that in your country, or in any other democratic country, it really works that way ? I wanted to imply that democracy is just a pretty word used to describe an ugly system. They speak of capitalism(the highest stage of it) trying to make people believe that it is actually democracy, while the concept of that ideology has been long lost and people don't even want to admit that. Democracy should do the things that you speak of, but if you believe that this system works the way the fairy tale has been meant to then we two have differing opinions. Just look at how much power do corporations hold in the US. In this democracy, there are people specifically assigned and taught at schools how to fool ordinary people into voting for the candidate that they are hired by. In my books, this goes against anything that democracy is meant to be.

And also, freedom of speech, one of the greatest things about democracy, is a joke. There are many people who can testify to that, from Rod Sterling to Felipe Coronel.
I hope you understand now why I used the word democracy, and also how nepotism derives from the system that is hidden behind it.

X^2 wrote:This argument I've never actually understood. I'm going to have trouble explaining this but I try...
If we consider the size of the universe (which very well may be limitless) and also the nature of time (once again, time could be infinite), eventually even the most unlikeliest event will occur in some place at some time. So for us to exist here, is not that big of a surprise at least to me.
Even a ball will warp through a wall if you throw it against the wall for a long enough time, though I wouldn't suggest trying. You'll just get a sore hand. :happy:
And of course, we don't know if life in conditions other than what we have here would be possible.
I did not say that this argument is perfect, all I am saying is that it is better than that ridiculous one that has been spoken of above.

I don't think that people should speak of anything with certainty, the wisest of all human beings consider themselves to be fools, why a fool believes himself to be wise. Albert Einstein despised religion and the concept of Christian God concentrating his powers on one individual and then suddenly flying 5000 thousand miles north to help some other helpless soul, but he did not despise the possibility of a higher power. Atheists love to use Einstein as one of the examples of a man of no belief, but he was not that. He actually did not like atheism.
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Re: Controversial Opinions

Post by X^2 »

You don't need to apologize for anything. You want to tell me that in your country, or in any other democratic country, it really works that way? I wanted to imply that democracy is just a pretty word used to describe an ugly system. They speak of capitalism(the highest stage of it) trying to make people believe that it is actually democracy, while the concept of that ideology has been long lost and people don't even want to admit that. Democracy should do the things that you speak of, but if you believe that this system works the way the fairy tale has been meant to then we two have differing opinions. Just look at how much power do corporations hold in the US. In this democracy, there are people specifically assigned and taught at schools how to fool ordinary people into voting for the candidate that they are hired by. In my books, this goes against anything that democracy is meant to be.
I kinda understand what you're trying to say. I think the disagreement here lies in the concept of Democracy and how to define it. I'm one of those who use the word democracy to describe a system in which eligible citizens have an equal chance to participate in the politics. Nothing more. Whereas you seem to imply that Democracy also involves other aspects such as Freedom of speech etc. which I do not include in my definition.
Therefore I do find for example The United States a democracy, even if corporate power is twisting the way voters or politicians act. Capitalistic nation may very well be democratic, so can socialistic.
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Post by Druska »

Well the way I see it, democracy's biggest flaw is that everyone has the right to vote, and let's face it, the world is full of idiots and what's even worse, we're ruled by idiots. That and the fact that our politicians can't be trusted, that's why my country is so fucked up right now.
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Druska wrote:Well the way I see it, democracy's biggest flaw is that everyone has the right to vote, and let's face it, the world is full of idiots and what's even worse, we're ruled by idiots. That and the fact that our politicians can't be trusted, that's why my country is so fucked up right now.
Agreed. People call me weird for thinking that democracy is a heavily flawed system, that not everybody should have the right to vote, and that decisions need to be taken by an executive power without the support of the majority because, let's face it, people don't know what they want. Total freedom is never a good thing, and that's something many Americans can't seem to get through their thick skulls (no offense to any Americans here).
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Post by FuckT41182 »

Gregorovich wrote:
Druska wrote:Well the way I see it, democracy's biggest flaw is that everyone has the right to vote, and let's face it, the world is full of idiots and what's even worse, we're ruled by idiots. That and the fact that our politicians can't be trusted, that's why my country is so fucked up right now.
Agreed. People call me weird for thinking that democracy is a heavily flawed system, that not everybody should have the right to vote, and that decisions need to be taken by an executive power without the support of the majority because, let's face it, people don't know what they want. Total freedom is never a good thing, and that's something many Americans can't seem to get through their thick skulls (no offense to any Americans here).
I both agree with this and disagree. You can easily be misled and vote for a bad candidate too, it is not just a privilege of stupid people. If the lie is good enough it can fool anybody. And to be perfectly frank, in this world, does it really matter who you vote for? As long as people believe in any kind of superiority over other people there can be no good in this world, and this belief is important in order to keep one country above the rest of the world. There is no international law, the Americans don't even need to explain shit anymore. They can go and fight abuse of women in Palestine while making 60 billion dollar deals with Saudi Arabia where women are revolting just to be allowed to drive.

It's all bollocks, because if you want to keep stupid people from voting, then alright, but it is a fact that you will have to take those rights off of most people on this planet, for not only stupidity is a strong factor, but also ignorance and a lack of knowledge. People easily believe in things, I remember one teacher in my class who told me that there are two types of Imperialism: the bad type(Nazi Germany) and good type(British empire). Now, Tasmania sure is a good example of elevating living conditions and culture. And even if that lie was true, who the fuck gives anybody the right to change somebody's culture, religion and a way of living as a whole?

The point being, if a teacher lacks in certain areas of knowledge, how will you find those who are truly capable to vote without being fooled by nice speeches and pretty faces?
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Re: Re:

Post by Gregorovich »

FuckT41182 wrote:
Gregorovich wrote:
Druska wrote:Well the way I see it, democracy's biggest flaw is that everyone has the right to vote, and let's face it, the world is full of idiots and what's even worse, we're ruled by idiots. That and the fact that our politicians can't be trusted, that's why my country is so fucked up right now.
Agreed. People call me weird for thinking that democracy is a heavily flawed system, that not everybody should have the right to vote, and that decisions need to be taken by an executive power without the support of the majority because, let's face it, people don't know what they want. Total freedom is never a good thing, and that's something many Americans can't seem to get through their thick skulls (no offense to any Americans here).
I both agree with this and disagree. You can easily be misled and vote for a bad candidate too, it is not just a privilege of stupid people. If the lie is good enough it can fool anybody. And to be perfectly frank, in this world, does it really matter who you vote for? As long as people believe in any kind of superiority over other people there can be no good in this world, and this belief is important in order to keep one country above the rest of the world. There is no international law, the Americans don't even need to explain shit anymore. They can go and fight abuse of women in Palestine while making 60 billion dollar deals with Saudi Arabia where women are revolting just to be allowed to drive.

It's all bollocks, because if you want to keep stupid people from voting, then alright, but it is a fact that you will have to take those rights off of most people on this planet, for not only stupidity is a strong factor, but also ignorance and a lack of knowledge. People easily believe in things, I remember one teacher in my class who told me that there are two types of Imperialism: the bad type(Nazi Germany) and good type(British empire). Now, Tasmania sure is a good example of elevating living conditions and culture. And even if that lie was true, who the fuck gives anybody the right to change somebody's culture, religion and a way of living as a whole?

The point being, if a teacher lacks in certain areas of knowledge, how will you find those who are truly capable to vote without being fooled by nice speeches and pretty faces?
In this case, I was grouping ignorant, misled and stupid into a single category. And people being superior over others is a neccessary part of life - no matter what people say, we will always need leaders. We will always need people who can see and achieve what's in out best interests for us, because we're not all capable of doing that ourselves (although most of us are under the delusion that we think we are). The problem arises in actually finding people who are able to assume this responsibility without becoming corrupt.
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